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Post by Mini Moguls on Oct 12, 2020 18:26:31 GMT -2
Wakyreds send SP Jacob Degrom $30.00 thru 2022 SP Andrew Heaney $5.25 thru 2023 $35.00 2021 Cash $35.00 2022 Cash
Mini Moguls Offer: 1B Rhys Hoskins $6.25 thru 2021 RP Kevin Ginkel $1.00 thru 2021 SP Forrest Whitley Prospect SP Tarik Skubal Prospect SP Brendan McKay Prospect SP Alex Faedo Prospect C Daulton Varsho Prospect
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2020 18:37:42 GMT -2
The WakyReds approve this trade as alot of you know my plan coming in was to clean this team up and position it in alot better shape then it currently was and after this trade I defintely feel like I have done this. I mean this trade is more about 2022 and 2023 then it is about next season. I mean Rhys Hoskins is out for 2021 but I plan on bringing him back in 2022 and hope he performs as a solid 1B that I will defintely need. I gain a ton of prospect talent in this trade for my teams future as I look to make it competitive.
I mean to get these prospects in a trade is great especially when I currently only have a couple of draft picks total over this season and next so this trade defintely helps add alot to my overall prospect pool.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2020 18:46:20 GMT -2
Okay, this whole situation has had me a bit uneasy and this trade compounds it.
Old Waky made two trades immediately before leaving. The Heaney/Meadows swap with Mini I thought was pretty fair. The Waky/Giants trade I thought was lopsided, as DeGrom and Turner where paid at market value in my opinion, while Tim Anderson was on a very reasonable deal and then future draft picks were added. I think it would be a pretty easy decision to keep Anderson and the picks and use the financial savings to add an SP of similar value to DeGrom and upgrade across the lineup. However, I didn't think the deal was egregious enough to veto it.
Then old Waky quits and I immediately regret not vetoing the Waky/Giants deal, as it did not position that team particularly well to be taken over by a new GM. Clearly, Anthony agrees by immediately going and shipping out DeGrom. I had talked about DeGrom and Turner with Giants and he had remained steadfast towards looking to add assets without covering salary. Clearly he negotiated well and got what he was asking. Mini has also negotiated a full covered DeGrom and Heaney here, which is a huge advantage, but pays a steep cost in future prospects.
In the end, I think its still pretty clear that this series of moves is a net loss for new Waky. I'm just not sure that it is right to force new Waky to honour the lopsided deal old Waky made immediately before quitting. However, I'm not sure if its worth punishing GMs like Giants and Mini, who capitalized on the scenario. Maybe others don't have the same concerns that I do and think that this situation should be left as is, but I think its worth discussing. Usually I'd be in favour of reversing the deal if a guy makes a bad trade then quits.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2020 19:00:10 GMT -2
I agree with you Flames. My problem is getting DeGrom for nothing. Sure there are specs involved but none really jump out at you as studs. IMO this is one of the worst trades I`ve seen here. Don`t know if it`s vetoable but it should be reworked.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2020 19:06:30 GMT -2
My issue so much isn't with the quality of this deal, but with the fact that Anthony would probably rather just undo the original Waky/Giants deal and never get himself in this situation in the first place.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2020 19:21:39 GMT -2
I actually think I did a nice job. I mean I actually got some young talent back in the deal when the previous netted pretty much nothing. I mean I only have two picks the next two years so good quantity was needed here and these prospects as a whole are solid.
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Post by n8carnes on Oct 12, 2020 19:24:56 GMT -2
I thought the old Waky trade was really bad too, given the time of year. And I definitely seriously considered reversing it after he suddenly quit. But I'm not a fan of reversing trades that were agreed to by both managers (and passed a league vote with no vetoes). I think that sets a bad precedence. And I think that would also have been unfair to Giants. So I decided to leave it alone.
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Post by Hanging Sliders on Oct 12, 2020 19:48:01 GMT -2
It’s a bad two deals for the org. I told Nate I thought he should reverse the Giants deal as it was a really poor deal.
Looking at the deals as one, to get a sense of what the Waky organization paid/received:
Under market Tim Anderson on long deal 3 draft picks $35M in 2021 $35M in 2022
For
3 top 50 prospects 2 lower end prospects.
That is a brutal deal when looking as one and gutted the org.
$35M in 2 years gets a TON of value. An easy argument can be made Heaney will be better than any of the pitchers he got based on Heaney’s prospect ranking and the success rate of pitching prospects.
I’m assuming:
Market rate Hoskins for one year on a surgery recovery. He is also paying this salary, it didn’t even get covered by Nate in the trade. Market rate for Ginkel.
But in the end new Waky made this deal and seems happy about it. It’s up to the league to say if it’s unfair.
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Post by Hanging Sliders on Oct 12, 2020 19:53:21 GMT -2
Sorry my comment about league vetoing it meant the combined two trades. The compound unevenness of both trades makes it bad.
Each individual trade is within the gap of manager discretion.
Old Waky got two top 10 players. Sometimes acquisition cost don’t matter
New Waky got 3 very promising prospects, a couple flyers, and a mashing 1B. The prospects could turn out to be three studs. Hoskins comes back early and puts up 40 HRs.
So individually nothing to veto. But combined it hurts.
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Post by Hanging Sliders on Oct 12, 2020 19:54:11 GMT -2
Oh wait. I just realized he still has Turner. So his return will get better
Forget everything I said.
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Post by n8carnes on Oct 12, 2020 19:57:38 GMT -2
It’s a bad two deals for the org. I told Nate I thought he should reverse the Giants deal as it was a really poor deal. Looking at the deals as one, to get a sense of what the Waky organization paid/received: Under market Tim Anderson on long deal 3 draft picks $35M in 2021 $35M in 2022 For 3 top 50 prospects 2 lower end prospects. That is a brutal deal when looking as one and gutted the org. $35M in 2 years gets a TON of value. An easy argument can be made Heaney will be better than any of the pitchers he got based on Heaney’s prospect ranking and the success rate of pitching prospects. I’m assuming: Market rate Hoskins for one year on a surgery recovery. He is also paying this salary, it didn’t even get covered by Nate Mini in the trade. Market rate for Ginkel. But in the end new Waky made this deal and seems happy about it. It’s up to the league to say if it’s unfair. Fixed.
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Post by Mini Moguls on Oct 12, 2020 20:38:09 GMT -2
Hey guys I have been in meetings since posting the trade and just saw the thread had blown up a little with what I think is a reasonable narrative, I appreciate the perspective. I will clarify a couple things just for perspective but I understand that most of the anguish or uneasy feeling has to do with the trade before Waky left. One think is just that Ginkel had zero value in the trade it was just to even up the players exchanged and was not considered as value going to Waky...don’t think that’s a thing but just wanted to mention it.
I will also say that in days of chat about this trade with Anthony I said no to other ideas that I didn’t think would be healthy. The concept was simple, it’s prospects for money and my guess is that if others had been willing to offer more and better MLB ready in the next year or two prospect talent then they would have done so.
Anyway I guess my point is that we did not rush the trade in any way and it was carefully thought through and I believe it’s extremely viable and the best offer he had on the table for the value he had to move.
I do appreciate the thoughtful nature of the posts!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2020 0:43:05 GMT -2
I voted pass. But these type of deals have tendencies to ruin leagues if they get outta hand. In the sister league we had a hot issue of a bad team paying top prices in FA then trading the player immediately and covering cost.
I think this differs cause new waky was given a bad deal and is doing whatever he can do right the ship.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2020 23:20:44 GMT -2
I like this one a bunch more than the last one. Regardless it's all speculative unless there is obvious collusion I am one to say all trade should pass. Suppose DeGrom blows his elbow out next spring? If one of the pitching prospects blows up it's lopsided the other way. Great to see the passion for our league after this disaster season.
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Post by n8carnes on Oct 14, 2020 22:30:31 GMT -2
Trade passed. Please double check for accuracy.
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